TexasCHLforum.com

I originally wanted to know if we had reached a consensus and we haven't.

The bottom line is this...

1. Lot's of guessing
2. Lot's of assuming
3. Lot's of making determinations based on guessing and assuming
4. Lot's of willingness to bet one's possible conviction on the defense of "common sense" in a world where prosecutors take pride in their convictions.

Of course, I asked for it. Since a consensus of the forum doesn't determine the actual legal definition. I just thought someone might have gotten some insight on the subject.

The reason this might be an important point is this. It is almost certain that a not a few persons might have to explain their openly carried firearm to a LEO who is responding to a MWAG report. The close scrutiny of the LEO in the course of doing his investigation will most probably bring close scrutiny to all aspects of the situation including whether the holster meets requirements.

No, under normal circumstances no will will notice the difference between a belt and paddle holster, of course. It's when a LEO starts taking careful interest in you, your gun, and your holster, that it might be an issue. I would think that at that very moment you would want to be in compliance especially if there is an accepted difference between the two.......as the holster industry seems to think there is!!!!!

And yes, if I don't feel comfortable with the ambiguity I will use a belt holster. I would prefer the paddle holster, and thus the question.

tex

Here are some more points that generated my interest in the first place.

I don't like wearing anything but belts with elastic in them to make them more comfortable for me. Since I don't prefer the leather belts that are substantial enough to carry a belt holster that a belt slides through, I am interested in a paddle holster. Therein lies the question for me.

Listening to all of this many of the responses rely on assumptions that I don't make and thus I asked the question.

A simple thought experiment exposes much of the assumptions.

What language would the legislature have to use to unambiguously mean...

1....all holsters used on the waist of the pants at the belt line?
2....just paddle holsters
3....just belt holster that have slits that belts slip through, or clips that clip onto the belt

Many of the responses assume that the phrase "belt holster" answers number 1. Maybe. Maybe not. Whatever an AG might say or the courts you can be sure that they will rely on the canons of Statutory Interpretation to arrive at their decision. In that regard...

1. Did the legislature mean what the said and said what they meant when they said "belt" holster?
2. Is there an universally accepted industry distinction or definition of "belt" holster?
3. What is the common meaning and usage of "belt" when used to describe something ie "belt pack", "tool belt", "belt harness", "belt holster"
4. If the legislature meant "belt holster" to include all waist level, belt associated holsters including paddle holster, then what term would the legislature use if it only meant "paddle holster" to exclude holster with slits through which belts were worn.

It is true that until an AG or court decides we will be left to guess using as few assumptions as possible to come to a decision.

Remember that some of the tactical thigh holsters are supported on the belt with a thigh garter around the leg. By many of the definitions here that might qualify as a belt holster.

tex

One of the concerns is that the holster industry itself distinguishes between a belt holster and a paddle holster. These are clearly two different animals.

Let's reverse the thought. What if the legislature had specified that the holsters for open carry had to be a shoulder or paddle holster? What kind of conversation would we be having then? It is we who are trying to make a paddle holster fit into the definition of a belt holster. If it were the other way around would we even trying to convince ourselves that a belt holster is really a paddle holster?

What we are doing is making an assumption that when the legislature said belt holster they really didn't mean that as a distinctive type as does the holster industry, but rather meant any ole holster that is carried somewhere over, on, or in the vicinity of the belt.

I wouldn't be so sure that distinction doesn't matter.

tex

Say what?

Getting ready to order my open carry holster.

Did we ever reach a consensus as to whether a paddle holster worn over the belt would meet the technical definition of and legally pass for a belt holster?

tex