TexasCHLforum.com

jimlongley wrote: I think that if an open carry law passes we will see a whole new spate of "no guns" signs that comply with whatever is written into the law, and those signs will be just as entrenched as any we have ever seen, making them almost impossible to get removed whether or not OC proves to be as much of a non-issue as it is in other states.

I respectfully disagree. I think most business owners don't follow what is going on at the Legislature unless they have a particular issue they are following. If, for example, a Concealed Handgun License became a Texas Handgun License, few would understand the distinction. Moreover, those that are adament against gun carry probably already have a legit 30.06 sign. Those that do not now would have little new incentive to add one. Besides, this could be your new way of getting a new sign: update 30.06 to account for the name change and now all of the current signs are out-of-date and not identical to the language in the statue.

Charles,

It is good to engage with you again. I'm pressed for time so all I offer at the moment is the following. Open Carry DOES have many bad examples posted (illegal detainment & extra-legal hassles usually, but some arrests & the rare prosecution, too) but:

a) It also has many examples of "I carried yesterday in downtown <city name> and no one noticed. As it should be."

b) These are only the stories get posted. It is the self-reporting data problem. Only those people who are members of Open Carry.org post there, for good or for ill. It is highly likely that there are people that open carry regularly or at least sometimes who do not post there.

c) I still believe it to be radical in thought more than in practice. It shounds scary. Given the extremely rare practice of it that would occur even if legal, I think it woulld ACTUALLY scare few. Look at the poster from CO. He used to live there and saw no one open carrying, yet unlicensed open carry is completely legal (except for in Denver).

d) To have new 30.06 signs would mean that people would have to be scared. For them to be scared, there would have to be a substantial amount of open carrying and I don't think there would be. I think very few want to FULLY open carry. I think many more want to casually conceal (in other words, you are generally or somewhat covered but if you become quite exposed, no big deal).

e) Again, I ask about Tennessee. They have licensed carry, open or concealed. I'll bet the vast majority choose to conceal or mostly conceal. For those who do carry fully openly, OpenCarry.Org isn't ablaze with LEO hassles. The cops there seem to know the law and let people go about their business without hassle. I maybe naive but I beleive Texas could be exactly like this.

Here's my prediciton for the day after licensed open carry passes and after the news stories about the novelity have stopped airing: very few will do it, there will be few or no new 30.06 signs. Many more will simply be less stringent about their concealment choices. The vast majority of the people that would be scared by the sight of an open gun will never see one, just as today.

I look forward to working with you and others to continue the Texas-only dialog. Again let me say, I want what works. I accept incrementalism. I accept dealing with the objections, fears (unfounded though they may be), working shrewdly with our legislators, etc. Whatever the process is that works, I'm for it. I assure you, I want results not to hear the sound of my voice and take a no-compromise "moral victory" position.

SA-TX

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Texas open-carry supporters, the 2011 Texas Legislative Session is right around the corner, so now is the time to decide if you want open-carry, or OpenCarry.org. You can't have both.

Chas.

You know my answer: I want open carry. Strategy and tactics are the means to the end, not the end itself. I've long called for all pro-2A groups to until behind an agenda that continues to increase our carry options in this state. Parking lot and college carry and two examples of that. Fixing the "court or court office" is another. Getting rid of ridiculous restrictions such as polling places and professional sporting events are further examples. Yes, open carry is another example. I'm not saying where it should be ranked in the stack, but it should be there if for no other reason than the practical one: sometimes it's a hassle to fully conceal. The state of Tennessee which culturally is as close to Texas as I'm aware of (as it should be since many of the first Texans were Tennesseans), doesn't have a problem with licensed carry, open or concealed.

I have advocated two core ideas both here and on OpenCarry.org: 1) we should work together for the good of all and 2) open carry isn't as radical as it seems once you look at the actual practice of it elsewhere. Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Louisiana, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona. These are all southern and southwestern states that have much in common with Texas and open carry simply isn't a problem there. Why would it be here? All available evidance suggests that it wouldn't. I stand by both of these principles and look forward to working with Charles and everyone else who may respectfully disagree with me on open carry, but who wants to expand 2A freedom in Texas.

SA-TX