Search found 7 matches

by rotor
Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:29 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Thinking About Defense of Others
Replies: 63
Views: 12391

Re: Thinking About Defense of Others

jmra wrote: Now to the rest of your post. I don't play the "if" game. If I did I would never leave the house. What happened is what happened. No ifs about it. True probabilities of an "if" can be found in historical fact. If it is likely to happen it already has happened frequently. The "ifs" you propose are historically a statistical non-event as they simply aren't prevalent in Texas CHL history. If we only focus on the possible negative ramifications of our actions how can we ever achieve anything positive?
We always play the "if game". Especially if we pull our guns and contemplate shooting. "is there an innocent bystander that might get hit?" etc. This case turned out OK for the good samaritan shooter and I am glad it did. The difference between you, an experienced driver and your kids driving the first time is that you play the "if game" and they haven't learned it yet. "What if that car in front stops fast?" We all play the "if game" but not always well, like the two robbers in this case. What "if we get caught" but that couldn't happen.

This is an interesting discussion, who knows but I might act differently with an adrenaline rush in the real situation. I have been in situations before where I put my life in danger pulling an unconscious man out of a truck leaking fuel everywhere. My wife nearly killed me doing that. But if I had time to think about what I would do I would be looking out for me and mine.
by rotor
Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:52 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Thinking About Defense of Others
Replies: 63
Views: 12391

Re: Thinking About Defense of Others

jmra wrote:In response to the "I carry to protect mine not yours" point of view, in general I agree especially when it comes to property. However, I simply could not look my wife or teenaged sons in the face if I stood by and let someone extinguish an innocent life when my intervention could have prevented it, especially if the innocent life where that of a defenseless person.
I am raising two young men to be men of honor and valor. That requires that I serve as an example. I hope and pray that I am laid to rest as a very old man by my aged children, but if I were to lose my life tomorrow in defense of a helpless child I could Rest In Peace knowing that my boys are in excellent hands with a strong mother and knowledge that some things are worth dying for.
It is nice to be alive to raise your young men. To each his own. I am a 70 plus male not capable of putting up a marine type "fight". I am not LEO and I carry a .380 for personal protection for me and mine. I know that I have limited ability with such weapon and no additional rounds (6). Any self defense move with that limited capability has to be well planned. If I had to carry bigger or more rounds I run the risk of not carrying. Everything is a compromise. I don't carry to protect mall goers and people shopping in 30.06/30.07 zones. I carry to protect me and mine and even that is the bare minimum. Talk about resting in peace is cheap. I admit the reason I carry. Those that carry better or feel more secure go for it. I am glad the good samaritan shot one of the BG and didn't get hurt. Brave man. I am just saying why I carry and what I feel my obligation is. If one of the BG that was shot would have turned out to be LEO in pursuit or a mall goer had been accidentally shot by the good samaritan can you imagine how this story would have been reading. Do you think Kay's Jewelers cares that a customer was killed in their store? We all need to act with our training and my training is not adequate to handle a situation like this. Come at me or mine where I think our lives are in danger and than I will act. Probably not that good either but better than unarmed. Definitely better than hand to hand.
by rotor
Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:01 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Thinking About Defense of Others
Replies: 63
Views: 12391

Re: Thinking About Defense of Others

bblhd672 wrote:
rotor wrote: By all reports I saw he was not armed. Having served 8 years in the military I am not demeaning anyone on the basis of their military experience. To die protecting Kay Jewelry property is not my idea of smart and now his wife and children don't have a husband/father. I would rather be alive than a dead hero. He was not protecting lives, he was protecting property from a store that posts "we will not let you protect yourself". I do not consider myself a coward for that stance. Dying to protect Kay Jewelry property is not warranted.
Then perhaps you should choose your words more carefully when referring to someone who acted differently than you would?

Without the full release of exactly what transpired why cast judgement on the dead man's actions? Maybe the robber pointed his gun at the man's wife and threatened to shoot her?
As I said, if he was protecting his family God bless him for doing everything he could. He was in a 30.06/07 posted store and probably was not armed because he as a marine probably follows the law. You and I probably would not have gone into that store. To die protecting family yes. To die protecting Kay Jewelry stuff, NO! We will probably never know exactly what happened. I jumped on the reports of good samaritan. A man trying to save his family is not typically called a good samaritan. I have always said I carry for protection of me and mine only. Me and mine, not yours.
by rotor
Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:06 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Thinking About Defense of Others
Replies: 63
Views: 12391

Re: Thinking About Defense of Others

mojo84 wrote:
rotor wrote:
bblhd672 wrote:
rotor wrote:I suspect that the first good samaritan was not armed and although brave was stupid.
There's no reason to suspect he was not armed, he was a law abiding citizen who was not carrying a handgun inside a 30.06/30.07 posted location.
There's also no reason to demean a former U.S. Marine because he chose to be something other than a sheep when facing armed criminals.
By all reports I saw he was not armed. Having served 8 years in the military I am not demeaning anyone on the basis of their military experience. To die protecting Kay Jewelry property is not my idea of smart and now his wife and children don't have a husband/father. I would rather be alive than a dead hero. He was not protecting lives, he was protecting property from a store that posts "we will not let you protect yourself". I do not consider myself a coward for that stance. Dying to protect Kay Jewelry property is not warranted.

How do you know he was not protecting lives?

I saw a report his wife was with him. How do you know he didn't step in to protect her?

How does one know that robbers are not going to shoot potential witnesses once they get the good they want to steal?
How do you know? I don't. If he was protecting his family God bless him for doing everything he could. If that's the case you are right. Usually they don't report that as a good samaritan though. I wish it would have turned out that both BG were in the morgue.
by rotor
Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:00 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Thinking About Defense of Others
Replies: 63
Views: 12391

Re: Thinking About Defense of Others

mojo84 wrote:
rotor wrote:Apparently Kay's Jewelers doesn't care if you are able to protect yourself as they are 30.06/07. There were two good samaritans, one is no longer with us. One took down a BG. I suspect that the first good samaritan was not armed and although brave was stupid. The second guy was armed and at least had a way to help end this robbery-murder. Being at home safe and sound with my family sounds better than being a dead good samaritan. I would sleep just fine.
Was this guy "stupid"? http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/05/r ... y-7-eleven

or this one? http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43249972/ns/u ... IY65BsrLDc

or these? https://www.thetrace.org/2015/08/good-g ... date-data/

I would call them heros.
I did not check all of your references but I am sure those men are heroes. The issue is whether protection of Kay Jewelry property is reason to be a dead hero. Kay Jewelers does not allow you to protect yourself in their stores so why should I die protecting their jewelry from being stolen? Would a person that can't swim dive into a lake and try to save a drowning victim? Perhaps, but would it be smart? The guy died trying to protect someone's property. Not his property. He is a hero and two weeks from now when his family don't have their husband/father nobody will care and Kay Jewelers wont care either.
by rotor
Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:53 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Thinking About Defense of Others
Replies: 63
Views: 12391

Re: Thinking About Defense of Others

bblhd672 wrote:
rotor wrote:I suspect that the first good samaritan was not armed and although brave was stupid.
There's no reason to suspect he was not armed, he was a law abiding citizen who was not carrying a handgun inside a 30.06/30.07 posted location.
There's also no reason to demean a former U.S. Marine because he chose to be something other than a sheep when facing armed criminals.
By all reports I saw he was not armed. Having served 8 years in the military I am not demeaning anyone on the basis of their military experience. To die protecting Kay Jewelry property is not my idea of smart and now his wife and children don't have a husband/father. I would rather be alive than a dead hero. He was not protecting lives, he was protecting property from a store that posts "we will not let you protect yourself". I do not consider myself a coward for that stance. Dying to protect Kay Jewelry property is not warranted.
by rotor
Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:55 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Thinking About Defense of Others
Replies: 63
Views: 12391

Re: Thinking About Defense of Others

Apparently Kay's Jewelers doesn't care if you are able to protect yourself as they are 30.06/07. There were two good samaritans, one is no longer with us. One took down a BG. I suspect that the first good samaritan was not armed and although brave was stupid. The second guy was armed and at least had a way to help end this robbery-murder. Being at home safe and sound with my family sounds better than being a dead good samaritan. I would sleep just fine.

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