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C-Dub, you do have it. You must ID when driving and the CHL must ID when walking.

This is the one case where a person with a CHL has a requirement that a non-CHL does not. That is when carrying a weapon, the law requires them to present their CHL AND ID when asked by any peace officer. I believe this was truly necessary to get the law passed but it is a problem, IMO.

If I am walking, and even carrying a pistol as a retired officer, I do not have to present any ID to anyone unless I am driving or under arrest. A CHL does have to ID. Especially with the change to remove the penalty for not showing the CHL, I do not know if this would stand in court or not.

If it helps to understand one other distinction, remember that all traffic stops for driving violations are legally arrests in Texas, based on the Kurtz decision.

C-dub wrote:

srothstein wrote:It is also illegal to lie about your name, date of birth, or home address to a police officer if you are a suspect or witness to a crime. You do not have to answer at all, but you may not lie about it. That is in 38.02 Failure to ID, which it is obvious that HPD does not know very well.

I don't know this very well either. It seems quite fuzzy to me. How am I to know if I'm a suspect or not? They don't have to tell me, right? I know I wasn't involved in a crime, but the officer may not know that and if I'm considered a suspect then I must ID myself, right?

Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this. The only time, in Texas, that you must identify yourself is if you are under arrest. If you are a suspect or a witness, you may refuse to identify yourself but you cannot lie about your identity. Your identity information you must provide is you name, date of birth, and home address. I do not recommend refusing to ID yourself but you can. If you do, as soon as the officer says the magic words "you are under arrest", immediately give him your information. A key point on this is that the only time you must provide your DL is if you are driving or if you are carrying a pistol on or about your person and have a CHL.

Minor technical correction, EEllis. It is a crime to lie to state, county, or local officers IF it is about something that is material to their investigation (a very gray term). It is covered under PC 37.08 False Report to a Peace Officer. It is also illegal to lie about your name, date of birth, or home address to a police officer if you are a suspect or witness to a crime. You do not have to answer at all, but you may not lie about it. That is in 38.02 Failure to ID, which it is obvious that HPD does not know very well. I honestly thought HPD had learned their lesson about making sure their officers understood about the failure to ID laws after the incident a while back when a federal judge got arrested for failure to ID while jogging around his neighborhood.

To those who are wondering what laws were broken, I would guess that a complaint of official oppression (PC 39.03) and tampering with physical evidence (PC 37.09) would be the most likely charges to succeed, though there are problems with both charges. And, of course, federal civil rights charges could also be filed. I doubt anyone will file any charges against the officers though an IA complaint is probably a safe bet.

On the other hand, I am not impressed with the intelligence and tactics of the OC protestor. If he has run into that officer before and been mistreated then (or warned by the officer), I would say it is not smart to OC and protest in that area again. Not illegal, just not smart. Also, just in case anyone here is ever in that kind of situation, I suggest that you do identify verbally when asked for ID. You do not have to, but if the officer asks for ID and you answer by giving your name, DOB, and home address, it certainly helps defuse any possible charges of failure to ID.