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by srothstein
Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:47 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Stop and Identify
Replies: 30
Views: 5052

Re: Stop and Identify

JALLEN wrote:This thread drift about dangerous occupations is fascinating but you must know that 66.7% of statistics are misleading, and the rest are flat wrong.
Is that for the real statistics or does it exclude the 78% that are made up on the spot? :lol:
by srothstein
Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:24 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Stop and Identify
Replies: 30
Views: 5052

Re: Stop and Identify

The Police Chief article is interesting, but can be more confusing than the situation is. It also does not truly answer if a request and demand are the same thing.

First, to clarify one minor point. Disregarding the CHL for now, Texas does not require you to identify except when under arrest. It makes it illegal to give a false identity if you are detained, a suspect, or a witness, but you can refuse to identify.

Now, the exception is when you have a CHL and are carrying a weapon on or about your person. Important note is that it does not have to be under the authority of the CHL that you are carrying. It can be on your own property or as a peace officer or security guard, etc. The law says you must give your CHL and your DL or ID when the officer demands it.

This changes several things, such as making it a requirement that you have a DL or ID with you when you are not driving. It also makes it a requirement to identify when you are a witness or suspect or detained, which is not normally true.

And then we get back to the original question: what is a demand? I don't think this is ever answered in the law. The Code Construction Act says that the word is taken to mean its normal common meaning unless there is a technical meaning given by the law. But the common meaning of demand, as opposed to request, would not make sense in this law. An officer does not have the legal authority to demand ID in most cases. My opinion in this case is that the use of demand means a request, as explained earlier using the example of payment on demand. But we will not know for sure until there is case law on this.

And, since there is no longer any penalty for not providing the ID, there will never be case law. But it is interesting to discuss for those of us who like to discuss the academic ramifications of various laws.

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