TexasCHLforum.com

Mike from Texas wrote:Wow. Funny how the tables turn when actual facts are printed instead of liberal media propaganda. Lots of folks here were ready to string this guy up based on what the read from the very source that we normally discount as liberal garbage.

Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions until the FACTS are presented.

I'm just sayin'........

I think this annoyed one participant here (a while back), and they thought my bringing it up (at that time) was ignorant or something...Good thing I don't really mind being classified as ignorant...But what the heck...

"News is just that, news...Not evidence in a court of law..."

You are absolutely correct about not jumping to conclusions these days...

Greybeard wrote:The other was a Grand Jury also no billing the 71-year old who used shotgun in broad daylight on guy beating out the windshield of his (unoccupied) vehicle...

I'm glad to hear about this one...There was a good discussion about this particular incident...And the group was kinda split on the whole justification issue...

I guess I didn't see the update on this one till you mentioned it...

Do you have the source link on the GJ findings???

That might be a good lick to post in a separate thread linking also to the original thread discussion here...

Just a suggestion...

Lucky45 wrote:So daily, unarmed people descalate these situations without a law over their head. And we are suppose to be held to a higher standard than the general public.

Oh man, did you ever nail it!

No amount of speculation, based upon the news we have so far on this gives us the opportunity to actually grade the young CHL'ers behavior in the incident...I really wish we did have some idea of how and what he may have said inside that bus...

But you nailed it on how perceptions mean everything in the court of public opinion...If the public perception is generally negative towards anyone who carries a gun for any reason, see how the burden is on us to exemplify maturity, skill, and good manners in not escalating situations like this...We may never really know about this kid...And it just eats me up not knowing...Whatever the truth may be...

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Lucky45 wrote:

frankie_the_yankee wrote:
Also, Mallot must have tried to apologize or do other things that a reasonable person woiuld do to try to de-escalate the situation, which the BG unfortunately ignored.

I wish people would stop assuming this idea in this discussion, because NOWHERE since this incidents has it been stated that the shooter tried to apologize in HIS STATEMENTS. He had NO PROBLEM saying to the POLICE and the GRAND JURY that he pulled a knife, then pulled a gun to solve his dilemma with the decedent. When the FIRST THING out of a REASONABLE PERSON's mouth would have been, "I tried to say sorry, but the decedent didn't give me a chance to or wasn't hearing it.

So don't make excuses for him, let's go on what we know so far.

Point taken.

I was merely stating my belief (opinion) that there's no way that the GJ would have no billed him if he didn't try to de-escalate the situation.

It's possible I guess, but not very likely IMO. If the BG threatened him verbally and the guy was argumentative and pulled a knife, then a gun, I would think the GJ would consider that "mutual combat" or something similar and indict the guy for murder.

So you're correct, we don't know what happened exactly. And assumptions can be misleading. But I was just trying to make sense out of the situation.

My wife said we do not know if the defendant actually tried to apologize or make amends for brushing up against the other person who is dead now...

There may have actually been an apology extended and that the dead guy probably wasn't going to have anything to do with that at all...He has a history of being a bit unreasonable on several occasions, and again that is really not up to us to determine to a reasonable degree...

But we will probably never know...

Lucky45 wrote:

frankie_the_yankee wrote:
Also, Mallot must have tried to apologize or do other things that a reasonable person woiuld do to try to de-escalate the situation, which the BG unfortunately ignored.

I wish people would stop assuming this idea in this discussion, because NOWHERE since this incidents has it been stated that the shooter tried to apologize in HIS STATEMENTS. He had NO PROBLEM saying to the POLICE and the GRAND JURY that he pulled a knife, then pulled a gun to solve his dilemma with the decedent. When the FIRST THING out of a REASONABLE PERSON's mouth would have been, "I tried to say sorry, but the decedent didn't give me a chance to or wasn't hearing it.

So don't make excuses for him, let's go on what we know so far.

I kinda agree with this comment...And my wife made a similar comment earlier this week about this...So you guys are on the same page...And thats ok in my book...

One thing that gets me about the whole thing is, if anyone has ever ridden in a Houston Metro city bus, especially like the one they were in...

There is ample opportunity to step on or brush up against someone in those things...I know...I have been stepped on and push around on them many times when I worked downtown...Its a way of life...

And most reasonable people excuse themselves, apologize and everyone understands that and goes on with their day...

In this case, someone with a well established history of agressive and unreasonable behavior, and someone that carried a gun for lawful purposes "mixed"...

Obviously not a good combination that day...And someone lost their life because of that unreasonable behavior...

What is going to happen is that our community of people who have chosen to carry for this purpose of self defense have avenues and places where we can go and talk shop, get things resolved, and see how we can apply any lessons learned about incidencces like this...And that is not making excuses for apparant behavior of one of our folks...

The opposite side of this equation, as rediculous as it sounds, do not have discussion forums for I AM A RUDE AND ABUSIVE CITIZEN WITH A CRIMINAL HISTORY.COM

I believe we know enough about this incident, to understand why the court ruled the way it did...

And if there are elements in the community who wish to drag this situation out, well, thats their problem...And those people are well known to do that, for obvious reasons...

When the gavel falls, its a done deal, whether you like it or not...But to try a man again, for the same offense, after it has been ruled upon...What Quannel X is asking for is not an appeal...He just wants to try to get this guy again... Till he gets what he wants...Sorry Quannel it don't work like that...

Venus Pax wrote:In no way am I saying that I know what went on. When information comes from the media, you can bet that none of us know.

What I am saying is that we give a little too much wiggle room for the perp in our discussions of what would you do.

This may be somewhat true...

But after you accidentally brush up against someone, obviously you try to excuse yourself, and apologize for the offense...Thats common courtesy, no matter who you are and wht you look like...

In this case, we are not sure if that was even given a chance...

So if the guy who was defnding himself, first pulls a knife, and that doesn't do anything but enrage the other person more, then the puliing of a gun and stopping the threat that way, to me seems like you had too much time to try another form of method to diffuse the situation...

Obviously the deceased had too many similar encounters where they weren't going to let an offence like this go...And it cost them their life this time...

And I'll say it again, I do not believe it is our responsibility to "reasonably determine" if that person threatening us is under the influence, mentally deranged, or some other condition that would not be deterred by our ability to reason with that kind of person...

I believe we do a good enough job with the knowledge and training we have to not get ourselves into positions like this...

But sometimes, its others that drive that boat...

seamusTX wrote:

NcongruNt wrote:Yeah. How would one get a hold of a transcript of the hearing? I'm sure it would make an interesting read.

Grand jury procedings are secret. I'm pretty sure only the jurors, DA, and witnesses know what was said.

AG-EE wrote:Maybe this should be a lesson for some of us that we should not call people crazy and stupid based on what the newspaper article reports in a situation like this.

Amen to that. I had some thoughts that I am glad I kept to myself.

- Jim

Very interesting development...

I for one am always saying news is news, and not evidence in a court of law...

But I was a bit prejudiced by the outward demeanor of the defendant...At the begining of all of this...

Appearances can be deceiving...

Need to find out who his lawyer was...

I knew there was some interesting facts about this data...Just haven't looked at this data in a while...

Kind of answers the questions regarding what offences have been sucessfully prosecuted...

Not a lot precentage-wise...

But you can certainly tabulate up ALL the data and get a feel for what has been going on over the 10+ years we've had the law...

Here's the PDF file from the DPS on convictions of CHL licensees...

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... rt2005.pdf

This is from 2005, but the links go back a few years on the DPS website...

KBCraig wrote:

zigzag wrote:If ever it s the CHL holder who initiated the knife threat then it will look bad on us .

I'm trying to think, but I can't recall of a CHL-involved homicide that turned out to be a bad shoot.

Would this one (assuming it truly was a bad shoot) be the first one since 1995?

The DPS website used to (I think they still do) link to some demographic type statistics that broke down the criminal prosecutions of CHL holders...I haven't needed to look at that in a few years, but somethig pings in the back of my mind that I did see one licensee in the "murder" column...

Whether that was from a self-defense shooting that was determined to not be a (for lack of a better term) "good" shoot...I don't recall, nor was it elaborated on in that data...

Might be able to find it again...I'll go look...

It was what I actually observed while working a job downtown, that when my wife and I rode the Metro bus system, that the time of day played a factor as well...

I didn't observe too many scumbags riding with us at those particular times of day going to work or riding back to our park and ride...

IIRC this incident happened kinda in the middle of the day, on the backside of the lunch hour...

So I am actually not sure about the type of people riding the bus at that time of day to give a credible opinion on that particular situation...

Like I said before, this looked like something that two people (for some reason) just couldn't walk away from, and it cost someone their life...And as for the shooter...His life is screwed forever as well...Whether he acted appropriately or not...

Something that years ago my Dad and I talked about...

You can have the biggest, baddest, most intimidating person you can think of get in your face and absolutely "verbally" rake you over the coals for any reason...You should not do a thing but smile and walk away...

Because you know you have the means to end it very decisively...Thats your little secret...Relish in that fact, and walk away...Don't say a word, and walk away...

Thats why I love the part of the CHL class when I renew, and watch how the new folks work to grasp this little part of the class...It is actually a lot of fun to see the right transformation take place when most "get it"...

I believe this (walking away) happens more often that not, and (incidents like this) something the gun-control crowd loves to exploit every chance it gets...

Statistically, the Texas CHL community does an outstanding job, and when things like this happen...Well, things do get taken care of don't they...

Its intersting to see how the pendulum has swung in this incident...

First the report of the shooting on a bus of all places! How could this have happened!

Second the establishment of the "shooter" being a CHL'er took a short while to confirm...

Now we have information regarding the person who got shot apparently had been instigating a confrontation...To be confirmed...

The shooter tried to scare the shootee with a knife after the shootee started to get verbally abusive...TBD...

I guess I was right...This was a bad situation made worse, because two people couldn't back off from each other...

I also believe this should not effect the rest of us, because this is not the first time someone with a Texas CHL has murdered someone, if this is judged to be so in a court of law...Just my opinion...

jimmy wrote:What I'm getting at is that the shooter may indeed have been a concealed handgun licensee. But information like this has been mistaken before, so I'm waiting for confirmation.

"...indeed have been a..."

Haven't seen a thing about this...

I know we all have a concern about this alledged shooter having a CHL, but nothing I've seen that is linkable, or postable supporting that has been reported...

I agree, I believe we should hold off on these assumptions till it is confirmed, either way...

Did anyone else notice the video they did show of the "shooter"???

I know what I saw in that clip, but rest assured, it cannot be used against him because of the source...

News is news, not evidence...

This is not going to go very well for anyone...actors, victim, families, communities, the court, etc etc etc...

Just got that funny feeling...

lrb111 wrote:

casselthief wrote:

None of the other 12 passengers on the bus was hurt.

let's take a look at this. "None... was hurt."
really?
The English Language that far gone that journalists don't even have to learn it.

in that mode, I opine.

Wells, what I's be doings is duckin's mah headses as soon as thu gunses be goings offs. soundses to meh that thu suspect be puttin's thu gunses in his pantses, so's I's no see no need to be's pullin's mah gunses.
Now, if he be aimin's that thar gunses at anybody's elseseses, wells, I's maht be's inclined to be defendin's the sichy-ation.
Well's, that's a I's be doin's.

enjoy.

I'm gonna get flatter'n a flitter on the floorboards, fast.

I believe you meant to say: "flo boad"...