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The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:59 am

eyedoc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:24 am

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:00 am

mkc4091 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:28 pm Hi everyone,

I do have License to Carry and went to Costco today carrying concealed. I wore a t-shirt with another button shirt on top to conceal my Glock 17......

Slightly off topic, but it does speak to concealing in a "non-permissive" environment, so I just wanted to revisit this one point.....

I have a Glock 17. I LOVE my Glock 17. It’s a really good pistol. Also, I gave up trying to conceal my Glock 17. Full duty-sized guns are why the concealed carry market is dominated by compact and subcompact guns like the G19 and smaller. I can fairly easily conceal the G17 when wearing heavier winter clothing, or at the very least a heavy fabric jacket-like Carhartt shirt I have. But a button-collar lightweight shirt isnt going to do it.....and I’m a man of "prosperous" proportions who typically wears loose-fitting untucked collared shirts over an OWB-carried pistol. If concealment is my goal, then I don’t carry anything larger than a G19, and frequently carry something even smaller like a G26 or G43.

When I was carrying polymer-framed .45s, I did the same thing.....I carried either a compact XDM45, or a subcompact XDS45.

Now I realize that I’m blessed and was able to afford more than one pistol, and not everybody can do that. But for those who can’t, this kind of dilemma in Costco (and other "non-permissive" locations) is a powerful reason for NOT buying a full duty-sized double-stack pistol for your first gun, IF you intend to conceal-carry it. It can be done, but it’s more difficult to do so. And what do you give up by picking a G19 instead of a G17? You lose 2 rounds of capacity....going from 17+1 to 15+1. Unless you’re in an extended gunfight With multiple opponents, the loss of 2 rounds doesn’t matter—especially for a magazine-fed semiauto which can be reloaded fairly quickly. Full-sized single-stack pistols like 1911s are somewhat exempted from this analysis by virtue of their slender profiles. But the 1911 (which I also own and like) isn't really a beginner's gun, and first-time buyers more commonly buy polymer-framed double-stack guns than 1911s.

It’s worth noting that Glock submitted a variation of the G19 for military trials, not a G17, because part of the requirement was concealability. Sig won the contract because the modularity of its system permitted swapping frame sizes to allow concealment when necessary. Unless the new buyer intends to either (1) open carry their gun more often than not, or (2) use it only for home defense so concealment simply isn’t an issue, full sized duty guns don’t make the best choice for a first time gun buyer who can only afford, or only wants to own, one gun.

My G17 has been relegated to mostly home defense use, and—range trips excepted—99.9% of the time it sits on the top shelf of a gun cabinet in my bedroom with a suppressor attached. When I do carry it, I make no attempt to actually conceal it, other than maybe with a winter coat or jacket.

To the OP, if you’re able to afford to do so, maybe you should consider obtaining either a G19 or a G26 (or both), and then you’d be able to still use your G17 magazines as backup if you needed them.

Just a thought. I now return you to the scheduled programming.

I can comfortably conceal my 16 shot 10mm para under a t shirt while wearing shorts.

I’d comfortably submit that you’re the exception rather than the rule if your concealment is truly effective. So.....how concealed is it? Sure, there’s no law against printing, but can you honestly say that it never prints? I’ve seen full sized guns that were "concealed" because the carrier had a t-shirt over it, but I could practically read the roll marks on the slide. I’m also able to "fit" my G17 under a t-shirt; and I tend to wear slightly oversized t-shirts untucked; but I’m smart enough to know that it doesn’t take a genius to spot the gun.

I mean, personally, I don’t care. I sometimes open carry. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I’m just personally more comfortable with CC than OC for most occasions. And if I’m going to bother to cover it up, then the whole point of concealment is non-detection. I’m not talking about the legal standard since OC is legal; and from that viewpoint, it matters little if it’s obvious there’s a gun under your shirt. I’m talking about concealment as a goal in a non-permissive environment.

IOW, if you don’t want to get booted out of Costco, then it works counter to your interests if your 10mm Para prints too much.....as evidenced by the OP's experience with a G17 (a similarly sized pistol). Just my opinion, and worth exactly what it cost you to read it.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:00 am

mkc4091 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:28 pm Hi everyone,

I do have License to Carry and went to Costco today carrying concealed. I wore a t-shirt with another button shirt on top to conceal my Glock 17......

Slightly off topic, but it does speak to concealing in a "non-permissive" environment, so I just wanted to revisit this one point.....

I have a Glock 17. I LOVE my Glock 17. It’s a really good pistol. Also, I gave up trying to conceal my Glock 17. Full duty-sized guns are why the concealed carry market is dominated by compact and subcompact guns like the G19 and smaller. I can fairly easily conceal the G17 when wearing heavier winter clothing, or at the very least a heavy fabric jacket-like Carhartt shirt I have. But a button-collar lightweight shirt isnt going to do it.....and I’m a man of "prosperous" proportions who typically wears loose-fitting untucked collared shirts over an OWB-carried pistol. If concealment is my goal, then I don’t carry anything larger than a G19, and frequently carry something even smaller like a G26 or G43.

When I was carrying polymer-framed .45s, I did the same thing.....I carried either a compact XDM45, or a subcompact XDS45.

Now I realize that I’m blessed and was able to afford more than one pistol, and not everybody can do that. But for those who can’t, this kind of dilemma in Costco (and other "non-permissive" locations) is a powerful reason for NOT buying a full duty-sized double-stack pistol for your first gun, IF you intend to conceal-carry it. It can be done, but it’s more difficult to do so. And what do you give up by picking a G19 instead of a G17? You lose 2 rounds of capacity....going from 17+1 to 15+1. Unless you’re in an extended gunfight With multiple opponents, the loss of 2 rounds doesn’t matter—especially for a magazine-fed semiauto which can be reloaded fairly quickly. Full-sized single-stack pistols like 1911s are somewhat exempted from this analysis by virtue of their slender profiles. But the 1911 (which I also own and like) isn't really a beginner's gun, and first-time buyers more commonly buy polymer-framed double-stack guns than 1911s.

It’s worth noting that Glock submitted a variation of the G19 for military trials, not a G17, because part of the requirement was concealability. Sig won the contract because the modularity of its system permitted swapping frame sizes to allow concealment when necessary. Unless the new buyer intends to either (1) open carry their gun more often than not, or (2) use it only for home defense so concealment simply isn’t an issue, full sized duty guns don’t make the best choice for a first time gun buyer who can only afford, or only wants to own, one gun.

My G17 has been relegated to mostly home defense use, and—range trips excepted—99.9% of the time it sits on the top shelf of a gun cabinet in my bedroom with a suppressor attached. When I do carry it, I make no attempt to actually conceal it, other than maybe with a winter coat or jacket.

To the OP, if you’re able to afford to do so, maybe you should consider obtaining either a G19 or a G26 (or both), and then you’d be able to still use your G17 magazines as backup if you needed them.

Just a thought. I now return you to the scheduled programming.