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I think this is getting off topic Geo. I will send you a PM so we don't hijack the thread away from disarming or not. I understand you and seamus were not talking about disarming. But I hope you see my point that this guy wasn't just some guy but instead considered dangerous and infact a warning had gone out to the local LE community about the man. I understand your point and agree with you that it doesn't take a career criminal to shoot a cop and agree with you. I just wanted to add a little more detail about the circumstances that lead up to this shooting.

Geopagus wrote:

seamusTX wrote:That's nice. You question my credibility while offering no evidence to show that I am wrong.

If you can show me some cases where people who are not engaged in a crime (felon in possession of a firearm, transporting drugs, illegal alien, etc.) or have outstanding warrants shoot at police during traffic stops, I will eat crow with a smile -- well an embarrassed grin anyway.

- Jim

As I stated before, Unbelievable.

Here's your evidence that many people have already seen. It's the senseless murder of Trooper/Brother Vetter over the old man not wanting to receive another seat belt violation citation.


http://www.zippyvideos.com/1729980694559786/vetter/


Now go eat your crow with a smile and may this thread rest in peace.

WHOA WHOA WHOA there man. This was not some sweet old man who didn't want a ticket. This was by a man who was a member of the Republic of Texas and who had interactions with the officer before. Infact you can barely here it but the DPS trooper took a shot at the man as soon as he saw the weapon b/c he had his weapon out as soon as he started the traffic stop. The man refused to adhere to any traffic laws and had told the local police the next time he got pulled over he was going to kill whoever pulled him over http://www.odmp.org/officer/15433-troop ... ade-vetter. How do I know? Oh well we studied the case at the academy. It's a text book example of how to not perform traffic stops on known potentially dangerous persons and is taught to new cadets under the premis of dealing with KNOWN criminals who have threatened officers before!!!!!!!! You gonna tell a story to make an example tell the whole story man. This "old man" had been in jail before, had been arrested before, and had THREATENED the life of police officers before. I know this is becoming a heated topic, but of all places HERE we should look at the whole truth otherwise we are no better than the Brady bunch twisting stories to meet criteria. Oh as far as "dis-arming" Trooper Vetter was shot before he even had a chance to get out of his car. Seeing as how the old man didn't even have a state issued driver's license (he had his Republic of Texas one) I doubt he would have had a CHL; don't you?

seamusTX wrote:Police officers can handcuff people in custody when they reasonably believe that it is necessary for safety. Probable cause is not required.

Can you imagine how short the career of a police officer would be if he handcuffed every person he stopped for a class C traffic offense?

- Jim

Didn't say I agreed with it, just that it's another reason they will sometimes use....

The only reason I can see is this. If an officer disarms everyone he will never have to prove why he disarmed one certain individual. If something occured and for some reason they ever went to court and one of the attorneys asked Officer Jones why did you disarm my client? He could answer "I disarm every CHL holder I encounter on a traffice stop." It could be his department policy, or his personal policy and he could say that's it's always for his and the public's safety and be ok since the law is so vague. This holds true for most things on a traffice stop. Why did you have my client exit the vehicle, why did you ask them to roll down all their windows, etc. Once in court they can claim officer safety and that they do it on all traffice stops or public encounters and it won't look like they singled that individual out. I'm not sure how good of a reason that is but I know a lot of police officers do it.