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.40 S&W 125gr. Barnes TAC-XP Lead Free 50rds-$67.47 a box....is the high cost because there using a barnes tac-xp? is it worth it?

what about BARNES BULLETS TAC-XP? Anyone used or heard about this stuff looks pretty impressive never messed with it myself....and no I don't sell Barnes either.

RBCD Performance Plus 40 S&W 77 gr. TFSP
shot at 30' into 10"x10"x16" 10% Calibrated Gelatin through 4 layers of ballistic nylon.
Entrance through left end. No exit.



RBCD Performance Plus 45 ACP 115 gr. TFSP
Shot at 30' into 8"x8"x16" 10% Calibrated Gelatin through 4 sheets ballistic nylon.
Entrance through left end, no exit!

snatchel wrote:

blackopstx wrote:

olafpfj wrote:

blackopstx wrote:
(BTW I don't think used car salesmen hock time shares)

You don't say!! <sarcasm> in case its missed. But if they did I imagine it would sound similar. Minus all the ammo stuff though since we're being literal...

I like the stuff have used it in real world scenarios, in a variety of places and experiences

Please...Regale us with haughty tales of daring. If its been declassified of course. Certainly don't want any Opsec violations here...

Anyway ..you got your debate and when you lost you got really petulant and lashed out with personal attacks and name calling against a very respected member of the forum. Feel free to respond by PM since this is getting off topic and out of line with the usual jovial tone of this forum.

Hope everyone's Monday is going as well as one can,

When you say "lost" the debate olafpfj, what was the winning ammo in the debate, I haven't seen much if any comparable data to why any of the "non Gimmick" ammo is better or more reliable....have you personally hunted with RBCD or shot any soft tissue targets with it? If you haven't you really should give it a shot before forming an opinion off of people who don't like it on the internet, and probably haven't shot it either. I can only imagine in your best Hank Hill voice when you say ,"petulant and lashing out at a very respected member of the forum." So if you could enlighten me as to which ammo is the "winning" ammo, and why....some data like I've provided would be useful.

If anyone, including you... is using any type of "defensive" round, including RBCD, for the purposes of hunting..... then they are being an idiot. You can take that to the bank. Going out and shooting a brisquit or a rack of ribs with defensive ammunition is one thing, but hunting a live animal with this is not only inhumane in most cases, but ill-advised. Exceptions of course being small squirrels, and things of that nature....and even then I'll call 'em an idiot.

Why is that dumb? RBCD makes a perfect round for taking down big game, if your just going to mount it why not a quick devastating round? If your a hunter you want knockdown power to go with a good shot, assuming you are one...or am I alone on this too? .."hunting a live animal with this is not only inhumane in most cases, but ill-advised. Exceptions of course being small squirrels" is a small squirrel not a live animal? You don't necessarily want to eat big game like a bear, mule deer, or even feral hogs or javelina. I'm not talking about using an animal for testing a self defense round, but you can hunt and do so effectively with rbcd, I like the predator .223

olafpfj wrote:

blackopstx wrote:
(BTW I don't think used car salesmen hock time shares)

You don't say!! <sarcasm> in case its missed. But if they did I imagine it would sound similar. Minus all the ammo stuff though since we're being literal...

I like the stuff have used it in real world scenarios, in a variety of places and experiences

Please...Regale us with haughty tales of daring. If its been declassified of course. Certainly don't want any Opsec violations here...

Anyway ..you got your debate and when you lost you got really petulant and lashed out with personal attacks and name calling against a very respected member of the forum. Feel free to respond by PM since this is getting off topic and out of line with the usual jovial tone of this forum.

Hope everyone's Monday is going as well as one can,

When you say "lost" the debate olafpfj, what was the winning ammo in the debate, I haven't seen much if any comparable data to why any of the "non Gimmick" ammo is better or more reliable....have you personally hunted with RBCD or shot any soft tissue targets with it? If you haven't you really should give it a shot before forming an opinion off of people who don't like it on the internet, and probably haven't shot it either. I can only imagine in your best Hank Hill voice when you say ,"petulant and lashing out at a very respected member of the forum." So if you could enlighten me as to which ammo is the "winning" ammo, and why....some data like I've provided would be useful.

olafpfj wrote:Blackopstx,

You join this forum and immediately begin shilling for what is widely considered gimmick ammo without so much as a hello. Your posts read like a used car salesman selling time shares. Now you're getting personal with a knowledgable and widely respected member of this forum?...

Don't really care what your affiliation is with the manufacturer or distributor but please stop spamming and/or trolling the site.

The funny thing is, we probably agree on most things on this forum, we have far more in common as we all have affinity for the love God, Country and Constitution. I'd much rather focus on what brings us together the divides us, in this forum the love of guns and bounce ideas and questions around. (BTW I don't think used car salesmen hock time shares) I'm into the nuts and bolts on ballistics and thought this was a good place to get feedback on what a better ballistic round would be for personal defense ammo....a comparison of available ballistic statistics. So far none of that has come into fruition. I've been the on lambasted as some hack snake oil salesman who's pushing RBCD, which I'm not- just seeing if anyone else has experience or first hand knowledge of it. But I don't think anyone here would allow a bunch of personal attacks shoveled on them without saying anything....Let me go on the record I HAVE NO affiliation with RBCD as a manufacturer or distributor at all ever. I like the stuff have used it in real world scenarios, in a variety of places and experiences -- not just reading stats and saying that's the best! I joined and WILL continue to interact on a variety of topics because this is a sight with like minded shooters. Not trying to rub people the wrong way, but I'm not a pushover either.....Look forward to more lively debates, and happy shooting to everyone out there!posting.php?mode=quote&f=23&p=634205#

AndyC wrote:

blackopstx wrote:RBCD has in a 77grain bullet 2100fps/754flbs that will make a 9" wide wound channel 11" deep

Really. What was the target used - Goldie Hawn?



Second, you seem enamored of energy - and "energy dump" is a myth. Energy is required to push the bullet forward so that it makes a hole; it's physics, not magic.

To put energy into perspective - the energy of a typical .45acp bullet is equivalent to dropping a 10lb weight from a height of just under 1 1/2 inches; that of a 9mm bullet, a 10lb weight from a height of 3/4 inch. Impressive, huh?

blackopstx wrote:But when your foot is on the line I want Tier1 ammo and this is it.

Not for me, it ain't ("Tier 1 ammo"? Who on earth invented that silly term? Some marketing twerp hoping to make it sound tacticool?).

You sure you don't work for the company who makes it? What's your relationship to DallasSVT, who coincidentally also is a new member pushing these magic bullets?

I'm starting to smell a pair of trolls, and if that's the case, you'll find that this forum, as with others, does NOT appreciate folks who are happy to risk others' lives so that they can make a buck.

Yes muzzle energy has no bearing on ballistics, I'm glad there's experts out there to point out Muzzle Energy is only as impressive a dropping a 10 pound weight an inch and a half! We really need to get ammo manufacturers to stop this unimpressive and irrelevant data, because some guy who lives in his moms basement and eats dino-nuggets says it's not that big of a deal. So far I've provided data and personal experience you're giving me copy and pasted pictures and words you think are "tacticool".....I'm not selling the am mall of my posts state shoot what you want......You've never shot or handled this ammo so again use what your comfortable with, maybe base pay spraying shoes at the local bowling alley, won't afford you the very best.

AndyC wrote:

It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use.

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - Special Agent Urey W. Patrick, FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit, Qunatico, VA

I'll hang onto my Golden Sabers for now.

Let's look at .40S&W round the FBI uses, if you're trying to stop a threat of the soft tissue kind, RBCD has in a 77grain bullet 2100fps/754flbs that will make a 9" wide wound channel 11" deep......compared to Remington's Golden Saber which is 1307fps/626flbs, I can't find what golden saber's wound channel claims.......So I can have a lighter round that shoots faster, and has more energy at point of impact and penetrates 11 inches deep 9 inches wide, and that is NOT "an effective bullet for LE use?" how many bad guys are going to survive that type of round? And if you really wanted to stay protected even against "Fat Albert the Burglar" use the 10mm rbcd which has 242-fps/1015 flbs and leaves a 12x12 thereby satisfying Special Agent Patrick's minimal penetration requirements......But again as I've been told and instructed to others shoot what you're comfortable with. But when your foot is on the line I want Tier1 ammo and this is it.

03Lightningrocks wrote:I just want to know why I have to buy the hog at a hispanic meat market. Are the hogs there different than the hogs at any other meat market?

Have you ever been inside of one of those it looks like an Eli Roth Boutique, you can't get a 1/2 a Pig at a Randalls or Tom Thumb or Krogers, the comparison doesn't really work shooting a hamburger patty or a bone-in ribeye....that was what I was trying to stress.

The artist is H.R. Giger a swiss surrealist painter who actually won an Academy Award for Visual Effects in the Movie Alien, he does really cool stuff........just wanted to reach out and see some ballistic data on the stuff people like to have as PDA because if it's better than rbcd, I'd like to grab some! Hope everyone has a good weekend! Blackopstx out

Well snatch,

like I said shoot with what your comfortable with, once again no sales pitch here! I'm one of those weird guys who likes gimmicky things like- a high ftps, coupled with impressive stopping power noted in the width and depth of a wound channel, and a round that has a lower propensity for over penetration of a threat.....but that's just me, seems like these qualifications would be a standard bearer for an excellent Personal Defense Round. I've shot tons of different game in addition to cow/pig parts and it is unrivaled......BTW What do you look for in an ultimate Personal Defense Round? What is your "best"?

Thank You for the welcome, no sales pitch here just prefer the best of the best when my life's on the line. Believe me I was just as skeptical as some of you have indicated but you can read articles and reviews till your blue in the face...as with most things experience is paramount to forming an educated consensus re: this stuff. At the same time absolutely carry and shot what your comfortable with, this stuff is impressive and the cost/benefit is unrivaled in my opinion!

I've seen those reviews on the penetration power and to me that's a strong selling point. If someone's in your house and you have to stop the threat, do you want a high velocity .45 or .40 round going through the intruder into your kids room, or out of your control? The rbcd round does the maximum amount of damage without over penetration. The other point of contention was that it's a hollow point with a silicon ball underneath it therefore making it a substandard round? Again the internals I feel have little do to with the effectiveness and devastation of the round....you don't really know what's in a hotdog but it's damn good right? I really feel the best way for you to find out, as I did because I was skeptical about such expensive ammo too, buy a box of your favorite caliber,go to a hispanic meat market and buy a half pig, get to someones property, and test round for round what your favorite HP does Vs. Rbcd....You will see an appreciable difference for it's stopping/damage/destruction power.

I have supreme confidence in RBCD, you can't get any better bang for your buck....high velocity, stopping power, light weight total fragmenting soft point, that won't over penetrate a soft tissue target. It may be a little more expensive but how much is your life worth? Look at the Ballistic chart and show me another bullet that can do what this does.