Search found 4 matches

by cz75texas
Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:40 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!
Replies: 30
Views: 5632

Re: Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!

AlphaWhiskey wrote:Interesting (and very real world) scenario. I am ony going to address a couple of elements, others here will no doubt pick up on others. You mention a resistance to "punching holes" in somebody who may be aggressing you in a manner that would not require a deadly force response from you. I am making no pre assumptions about your current knowledge of use of force in Texas, but would encourage you to review the statutes. Remember that use of "deadly force" is not confined to use of a firearm or bladed instrument in the eyes of the law. Punching to the face or other vulnerable areas can very well be viewed as use of deadly force in some examples.

In MY opinion, one of the things that makes it better for us civvies in self defense is a lack of mandated continuum of force doctrine when it comes to defending ourselves. We need not worry about whether we are applying the same level of force (+1) when confronted with a situation as the BG. Instead we have two very simple circumstances to apply: Did you feel that your life or that of others in your immediate surroundings was in imminent danger? Or not? Police and others (security personnel) may be bound by force continuums because their criteria are different: defend yourself/ others vs affecting an arrest or otherwise taking control of a suspect that doesn't want to be taken control of.

Many here (as do I) advocate use of OC or other self defense spray as an adjunct to your EDC for personal defense. It may very well help avoid a true deadly force encounter in those "iffy" situations where force has been used upon you less than that which makes you fear for your life. I personally strongly advise against tacti-cool pens or other such items which will ultimately lend to the same "punching holes" in somebody you were trying to avoid in the first place. The other intended use of said taci-cool pens is in using presure point and other control tactics which, unless you are thoroughly trained, you are putting yourself in more danger than good to try and employ. My OPINION is that it is best to keep things simple and not involve force continuums (which evolved from lawsuits from excessive use of force during arrests, not self defense) in our decision process.
Completely agree with your post in all aspects. But carrying OC and advocating its use, IS developing a force continuum.

As a 22 yr old man I'm still at the age where there's still alot of knuckleheads who would confront me just because I accidentally cut them off or glanced in their direction....(South Texas for ya). For some reason the younger you are the more people think you're trying to fight them or disrespect them. I'm not going to go off and engage a guy who is just trying to be mr. macho. I personally NEED to develop a plan of action so to speak. Know how to match the aggressor properly and handle the situation with intelligence.
by cz75texas
Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:27 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!
Replies: 30
Views: 5632

Re: Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!

I completely agree with the notion that it is our primary task to assess whether or not we or the people around us are in immediate and SUBSTANTIAL risk of bodily harm and or death. At the same time some situations develop slowly or extremely quickly and leave fear of a confrontation rather than fear of death. I like to read other people's encounters in order to "practice" my mind.

Provide a scenario on this thread and or copy one from elsewhere. Read through and give yourself 5 seconds to make a decision on how you'd react. Remember to not let yourself start second guessing and asking for more details. Grey areas are the question. Nice little drill and exercises the most important weapon. Does anyone else have any real world cases or scenarios they'd like to share to shed some light on how a grey area confrontation was handled and risk was mitigated.
by cz75texas
Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:08 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!
Replies: 30
Views: 5632

Re: Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!

Okie- OC is another great option. As long as the winds are favorable and you don't forget that OC does in fact expire. :shock:
by cz75texas
Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:59 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!
Replies: 30
Views: 5632

Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!

In many instances, specifically high threat areas, you may feel the need to increase your options for levels of force. Some people carry flashlights, defensive pens, etc... I find that carrying a solid constructed ball point pen while walking to and from my vehicle gives me the option to defend myself at varying levels. I can recount several instances where a homeless drunk would approach in a dark parking lot in search of a handout late at night and be more persistent than comfortable. Certainly not worthy of punching holes in him but also a high threat scenario that may require a certain progression of force. There are always grey areas. I guess my point is...a CHL'ers nightmare is to draw hastely and end up in a wrestling match with a gun in one hand. Police have a progressive use of force ( mace, baton, tazer, deadly force). In a sense, I think its important that we create a concise format for progressive use of force specific for the everyday CHL holder. What would you do?

Scenario 1:

It's 11PM and you and your wife arrive to a soon closing convenient store. The parking lot is sparse but you recognize a man approaching customers leaving the store as you pull up. As you park he approaches your door before you can open it. He is clearly intoxicated begins to ask for spare change. You kindly say you are broke and walk into the store and purchase your items. As you are walking back to your vehicle the man approaches once more and becomes increasingly persistent and places himself between you and your door. Trying to avoid a confrontation, you and your wife take a few steps back to distance yourself and assess the situation. The man begins to walk quickly at you. What do you do? Do you have a secondary weapon appropriate for this situation? Or are you banking on the hope that this drunk man finds your pocket pistol intimidating and high tails it?

I am by no means, shape, or form a professional. Just a Texas CHL holder with some real world concerns.

Return to “Progression of Use of Force for CHL Holders!”