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Great story LT.

Well, Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, IF you are wanting to see the country... maybe someday you'll get that opportunity. It sure is a beautiful place! I just don't understand folks that want to be "world-travelers" and they haven't taken the time to see the great ole US of A!

Have a great day!

OY! I was kidding! But... you aren't, are you? You really need to get out more LT!

Just kidding. If home is where you belong, then so be it. As for me, every week I see East Texas , LA., MS., and part of AL. at least twice. I have actually been in every state (the lower 48 that is) at least once since I was 18. It's God's country... that is fer sho!

LT...

I guess I've never met "them" either. Boy, we sho nuff don't get out enuff... does we?


jbirds1210...

That's a GR8 guess! I wonder if you'ns is right? Pert near tho I'd gess.

I want to thank EACH of you for your wise and GR8 input!! I truly appreciate it.... more than you know.

But... keep'em comin'! I hope to hear from more of you, the more the merrier as they say. And BTW... who is "they"?

You're very welcome Venus Pax! I didn't realize that a situation would arise so soon after getting my license. I am glad it has though... better to be prepared and a situation thought out before acting.

BTW, I must ask.... what does Venus Pax mean? If you can/will answer that is.

Awe shucks! Thanks longtooth. You're the man...

Like my father always said...
"If you're not learnin', you're dead."

RPBrown and Popshot...

I totally agree. Thanks for the input. I suppose then, I have concluded that...

1) If the DD is in a house.... call 911, look, listen and note all things.
2) If the DD is in public.... call 911, look, listen, notice what escalates and intervene (I too hope I would RPBrown) if the threat of life becomes quite evident.
3) PRAY THAT IT NEVER HAPPENS!!! And if it does, let's hope our guardian is with us!


Lucky...

Thanks for posting that Serenity Prayer... an all-time fav!

Jim,

I agree whole-heartedly! It's a crying shame too. But, like I said ... I think it's their 'out' when the chips are down.

txinvestigator...

Thanks for what you do/have done! The bringers of the Word and the protectors of the law... well... you know the rest I'm sure.

What about my other question then? The same scenerio in public? What is your professional advise there? And any other pertinent advise is more than welcomed too!

Jim,

Thanks for the thread link. Confusing, eh? Why does the state (any state for that matter) insist on using legal mumbo-jumbo instead of everyday plain English? I know... it's their out... right?

Lucky...

Those people, Mr and Mrs. Joe Blow, in the public that choose to have the local law enforcement be their protection is perfectly acceptable. If I see something happening, yes your conscience might act up, but common sense is a greater force for me. I am not trying to be the Lone Ranger and ride in on a white horse or be Captain Save-Them-Though and put on my cape. That is what local LEO are for. If some in here wanted to be involved in that scenario, they should have the other license as a LEO which has a greater jurisdiction. My jurisdiction with a CHL is the 20 yards radius around me. Anyone outside of that is the local PD's problem. So I would be very careful when dealing with deadly force outside of your jurisdiction because it will affect your FREEDOM.

I appreciate that. But I am hoping you are not insinuating that those that DO get involved in the protection of others (within the law and within or beyond the 20 yards), other than LEO's, are Lone Rangers? I personally would hope that I never have to intervene, but I still say I would if it meant defending those that were incapable of defending themselves at that moment. Like I said earlier... what a quandary!

ADDED: Yes Lucky... hopefully all of us with CHL's have the common sense to always ask and not assume. But then again.... that's an assumption!!!

Thanks longtooth! Don't be late.

Man O man... the responsibliity of knowing what the "right" thing to do in a split-second decision is HUGE!! Am I the only one that feels overwhelmed at times? Whew!

God bless you LT! Thanks for the compliments, even though they are undeserved. I did not mean to take those verses out of context.. I know better than that. I was only paraphrasing them to make a point. And, without a "friend" like Jesus... what would we have and what example would we have for what a TRUE friend is?

If you would be so kind... would you delve into this question I posed? I am interested in your answer.

I said earlier...
"What about the same exact scenerio in public? Would it be OK to just call the police and stand by and listen? If so, when would it be 'right' to intervene? When it turns to sexual assault? Murder? When?"

Thanks again to all!

ADDED: Thanks Jim.... your wisdom shows through. I appreciate your responses.
Russell...
Do me a favor... maybe it's just that I am sick at home right now, or that I am plum stupid, but this is what I meant earlier by the wording of the penal codes being enough to drive a lawyer nuts. Here's what you posted...

According to the law:
Quote:

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force
is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by
the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose
is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly
force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

Put this is simple English if you would!
It sure would help me out at this point. Thanks!

Again... thought-provoking.

Lucky... yes, I did notice that and that was at the heart of the question. Which leads me to this...

longtooth, thanks for all you do for the ministry! But as you know (better than most) a counseling situation is much different of course than a case of neighborly intervention. So, this leads me to another thought...
What about the same exact scenerio in public? Would it be OK to just call the police and stand by and listen? If so, when would it be 'right' to intervene? When it turns to sexual assault? Murder? When?

ADDED: Jim... thanks again!

The problem with domestic disputes, as longtooth says from his first-hand experience, is that the victim (nearly always a woman) is not willing to get out of the situation permanently.

My intervention question would then be... are we to know this while the perp is beating her? Are we to assume that this is the case in her situation? Or are we to step in and stop the abuse, the crime? It is a dilemma for sure!

seamusTX wrote:I don't have an answer for you, just some "data points" and questions.

Police officers dislike domestic disputes more than any other type of incident. The victim or other family members often turn against the police.

Is it worth your life to protect that woman?

If you interfere in a domestic dispute in your neighborhood, you will have made a lifelong enemy (the abuser) and possibly his entire family.

Do you want to spend the rest of your days and nights watching for them?

- Jim

WOW! What a thought-provoking question Jim. Thank you for posing it.

The only way I know to answer it is this...
I have called the cops before for domestic disturbances, but have never had to face it one-on-one. I guess I would have to answer your question this way... As the Bible states, 'there's no greater love than to lay your life down for another.' My quandary then would be, would I be able to live with myself for doing nothing? Is my life more valuable than hers? Is my safety more important than hers? Then the reverse... what about my families' safety? What about their lives if the perp is revengeful? So I guess it would all boil down to faith for me Jim. Would I do the "right thing" and simply trust God to protect me and mine? Answer... I hope so.

Thanks again for this question. It made me think.

**It's an obvious given that the police (911) would have been called immediately and even before my intervention to inform them what was happening and what I intended to do. I should have made that clear though I suppose. Sorry...**

Thanks for the replies! However, it sounds to me like no one knows for sure what I could/should do in this scenerio. There seems to be so much gray area in all these codes that it takes a lawyer to determine what they really state! Here's my 'hiccup' with the penal codes:

In Section PC 9.32, DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON, Part 3 (B) states, "to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery."
How EXACTLY would one know what the perp's intent was without saying, "Excuse me Mr. Perp, what are your intentions here?" Which is obviously rediculous. He might have killed the girl... we don't know. Therefore, would one not be 'justified' to intervene in my scenerio?

And...
PC 9.33, DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON, especially section (2): deadly force justified if...
"the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person".
Again... if a man (which is really NO man) is beating a woman, we can only call the cops? Are you serious? If so... I think something is wrong there... seriously wrong.

Well, let's see what else we can get from those out there that know the law and have dealt with this type of situation. Thanks again for all the input and let's keep it going. This is important to me, and I know to the girl next door.